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Hi There, I Would Like To Get Feedback On A

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Posted on Thu, 6 Jun 2019
Question: Hi there, I would like to get feedback on a supplement stack I'm taking to help with my sleep.
Vitamin B6 (P5P) 50mg
- Vitamin B5 500mg
- Magnesium Bisglycinate 100mg
- Zinc Methionine 30mg
- 5 HTP 200mg
- L-Theanine 200mg
I want to know if this is safe to take nightly?
default
Follow up: Dr. Dariush Saghafi (0 minute later)
Hi there, I would like to get feedback on a supplement stack I'm taking to help with my sleep.
Vitamin B6 (P5P) 50mg
- Vitamin B5 500mg
- Magnesium Bisglycinate 100mg
- Zinc Methionine 30mg
- 5 HTP 200mg
- L-Theanine 200mg
I want to know if this is safe to take nightly?
default
Follow up: Dr. Dariush Saghafi (25 minutes later)
I'd like to rephrase the question.

And ask why these different supplements each help improve quality of sleep?
default
Follow up: Dr. Dariush Saghafi (0 minute later)
I'd like to rephrase the question.

And ask why these different supplements each help improve quality of sleep?
doctor
Answered by Dr. Dariush Saghafi (2 hours later)
Brief Answer:
None of these ingredients are known to help with SLEEP

Detailed Answer:
Good afternoon and thank you for your question.

I can give you great details on the nutritional and biochemical worthiness of each of the ingredients you've listed but you may be somewhat disappointed to learn that there really is no robust or reproducible scientific evidence to support any of these ingredients either singly or collectively as being consistently effective for insomnia. This is not to say that in some people the product is known to work.....that can probably be said of anything and everything that is sold under some claim of effectiveness. There are a lot of human beings in the world whose bodies all work uniquely so NOTHING truly surprises me when patients come to me with these sorts of questions. My response is almost universally, "So long as it's not dangerous to you or anyone else in your household (little kids, pets, etc.) and so long as you are not ransoming off your first born just to get enough money to buy a 2 or 3 month supply then, GO FOR IT...and then, afterward TELL ME IF YOU THINK IT WORKED....Because then, I just might recommend it to someone with the caveat that I KNOW A SPECIFIC patient who has gained consistent and robust benefit.

However, your question is broader and more generic and you are asking for both SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE as to how and why something "supposedly works" as well as its safety. So here we go, strap in and get ready to either learn a ton of biochemistry and its practical application (or in the case of TREATMENT OF INSOMNIA...LACK THEREOF!! HAHA!).

PYRIDOXINE (Vitamin B6) which is used in the body in the metabolism of sugars, fats, and proteins. It is a required cofactor in the the proper growth and development of the peripheral and central nervous system (brain, spinal cord, and nerves). It is the drug of choice for PYRIDOXINE DEPENDENT SEIZURE disorder in infants and if not recognized as the cause of an infant's seizures can result in irreparable damage and even DEATH. It is also INDISPENSABLE as a treatment in a specific form of anemia known as SIDEROBLASTIC anemia which is a genetically acquired disease. It is also HIGHLY recommended that adults who are B6 deficient undergo replacement therapy. Otherwise, complications such as peripheral neuropathy, seborrheic dermatitis, glossitis, and cheilosis, as well as depression, confusion, and seizures (extreme cases of chronically low levels) can occur.

However, as a sleep aid or supplement it has been looked at and categorized as INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE in the treatment of INSOMNIA. In fact, there was a study performed that specifically looked at a combination of casein, zizyphus and hops (plants), as well as magnesium and vitamin B6 which concluded that in fact, this DID NOT significantly help or reduce the incidence or disability related to INSOMNIA.

Pantothenic Acid (B5) is also a necessary cofactor in the normal progress of biochemical processes in the body having to do with the metabolism of carbohydrates, proteins, and lipids or fats and is felt to be POSSIBLY effective for repairing skin tissue (especially in people who suffer from radiation therapy damage), however, such use to date has not been universally confirmed. In fact, some studies have suggested that there is a possible skin irritant SIDE EFFECT of this vitamin.

INSOMNIA as a treated disease for B5 is also listed as INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE to classify as helpful or recommended.

And so, in terms of clinical usage this vitamin has no known scientifically proven diseases for which it is known to alter the course. It is, however, recommended to replace in anyone who can be shown to be PANTOTHENIC ACID DEFICIENT....so go ahead and have yourself assayed if you think you might be deficient and replace using good quality product (not multivitamin) but I cannot recommend it specifically to help you with any sleep problems.

Magnesium Bisglycinate is actually just a fancy name for 2 GLYCINE molecules tied to Magnesium. Glycine itself is a NONESSENTIAL amino acid and therefore important as it pertains to good nutrition. It can be synthesized in the body from other sources so no worries if you don't get quite enough of it daily...your body will make what it needs to run the factory. But in terms of its usefulness for INSOMNIA....unfortunately, the only conditions in which the compound you mention has been studied to any extent is its use in patients who have to undergo bowel resections (small or large). It's also been looked at to potentially treat muscle cramps (legs primarily) in women who are pregnant but thusfar has not received any nod from the FDA since it is not known whether the compound can cause harm to the fetus.

Zinc Methionine is another compound similar to the Magnesium Bisglycinate since we are looking now at a ZINC SALT of METHIONINE. Methionine is an important amino acid that contains sulfur which can help prevent LIVER DAMAGE in the face of acetaminophen poisoning (Tylenol). This amino acid can be converted to CYSTEINE which is another sulfur containing molecule. However, there is no scientific literature of a peer reviewed type (i.e. reputable and reproducible results) that has looked at this compound when used to treat INSOMNIA. In fact, there aren't any reputable studies looking at this compound in the treatment for any specific human disease or condition.

5-HTP (5-Hydroxytryptophan). There is no question that there is a huge industry built around the production of this substance to treat INSOMNIA, however, the funny thing is that's not what it has tested as being even POSSIBLY EFFECTIVE. The 2 conditions which the scientific literature lists as possibly effective is DEPRESSION and DOWN SYNDROME (some studies refute this claim). Available data and other studies using 5-HTP show INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE for it to be useful in INSOMNIA.

THEANINE is an amino acid found in tea and is widely used to treat anxiety and stress related syndromes. However, its best use may be for increasing concentration abilities and focus which may lead to people making less errors when performing tasks and this seems to be enhanced when combined with low doses of caffeine. For these purposes studies are said to classify it as POSSIBLY EFFECTIVE. However, for the condition of INSOMNIA, has no literature support in any direction at all due to the lack of actual studies which have been designed, implemented, and statistically analyzed.

And so the feedback on your supplement you are taking to help with sleep problems is that none of the ingredients listed have ever been shown to be effective for INSOMNIA. They've not been necessarily shown to be INEFFECTIVE either except for the one study I mentioned having to do with PYRIDOXINE where a certain combination of elements were actually reported as being INEFFECTIVE for insomnia.

The rest of the ingredients have either NOT BEEN STUDIED adequately in the literature to even have an opinion on them OR they've been studied and shown to show INADEQUATE EVIDENCE to make the claims. However, that doesn't mean people can't and don't use these products and as I said, if it helps you then, "power to the people brother" and that's tremendous. But I wouldn't spend a whole lot of money up front on these products which can be extremely expensive due to marketing hype and through the mediums that they are sold which all sorts of claims and sponsors saying just all sorts of things that are either UNTRUE or UNPROVEN.

The only 2 items in your list that I would be careful about using IN ANY PRODUCT for whatever reason would be compounds containing MAGNESIUM and ZINC. Unless you actually have a magnesium or zinc deficiency...or have a bona fide medical condition that requires the use of these metals then, keep in mind that both of these can cause severe complications if used in HIGH DOSES over a long period of time. So be careful and don't think that just because they are tied to amino acids of some type that the whole compound is completely safe. The magnesium is an electrolyte which if taken in LARGE DOSES can change muscle contractility parameters which goes then, to complications with respiratory or heart musculature. I doubt anything would really happen in real life since the dosages typically used in these products is so small that you'd have to do nothing by eat pills with zinc and magnesium all day and night until your next birthday to OD....but people being people....you have to at least put the warning out there.

On a final note....I tell this to all my patients for any condition they may have....the best way to manage a medical problem (probably any kind of problem in life really) is to study the issue enough and get to the know what you're dealing with so that the UNDERLYING CAUSE(S) can be identified. Once you've done your homework on that aspect of your problem THEN, go after a DEFINITIVE SOLUTION by attacking the cause. Treating INSOMNIA without knowing exactly what is causing a person not to sleep is a VICIOUS CYCLE which usually leads to very unsatisfactory results and issues of taking one medication after another with either no results or worsening results as time passes. Plus the problem just gets more and more engrained and reaches deeper and deeper into a person's ability to function.

Get to the root of the problem and usually the path to the solution is clear. Treat blindly with medication or devices that make lots of promises rarely leads to anything but trouble (from a medical perspective) and poverty (from a financial perspective). Make sense? Insomnia can have a gazillion underlying causes from physical to psychological to a combination. The job of the good doctor is not to be able to choose the right prescription but rather to choose the right METHOD OF APPROACH following studious analysis of what often times is a complex interaction of multiple etiologies and contributing causes.

If I've provided useful or helpful information to your questions could you do me the utmost of favors by CLOSING THE QUERY along with a few positive words of feedback and maybe even a 5-star rating if you feel it is deserving? I am definitely interested in getting updated information on your condition if you'd care to drop me a line at www.bit.ly/drdariushsaghafi and let me know how things turned out.

You can always reach me at the above address for this and other questions. I wish you the best with everything and hope our discussion has aided in your understanding of a few concepts related to your concerns.

CHEERS!

This query required 88 minutes of professional time to research, assimilate, and file a response.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
doctor
Answered by Dr. Dariush Saghafi (0 minute later)
Brief Answer:
None of these ingredients are known to help with SLEEP

Detailed Answer:
Good afternoon and thank you for your question.

I can give you great details on the nutritional and biochemical worthiness of each of the ingredients you've listed but you may be somewhat disappointed to learn that there really is no robust or reproducible scientific evidence to support any of these ingredients either singly or collectively as being consistently effective for insomnia. This is not to say that in some people the product is known to work.....that can probably be said of anything and everything that is sold under some claim of effectiveness. There are a lot of human beings in the world whose bodies all work uniquely so NOTHING truly surprises me when patients come to me with these sorts of questions. My response is almost universally, "So long as it's not dangerous to you or anyone else in your household (little kids, pets, etc.) and so long as you are not ransoming off your first born just to get enough money to buy a 2 or 3 month supply then, GO FOR IT...and then, afterward TELL ME IF YOU THINK IT WORKED....Because then, I just might recommend it to someone with the caveat that I KNOW A SPECIFIC patient who has gained consistent and robust benefit.

However, your question is broader and more generic and you are asking for both SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE as to how and why something "supposedly works" as well as its safety. So here we go, strap in and get ready to either learn a ton of biochemistry and its practical application (or in the case of TREATMENT OF INSOMNIA...LACK THEREOF!! HAHA!).

PYRIDOXINE (Vitamin B6) which is used in the body in the metabolism of sugars, fats, and proteins. It is a required cofactor in the the proper growth and development of the peripheral and central nervous system (brain, spinal cord, and nerves). It is the drug of choice for PYRIDOXINE DEPENDENT SEIZURE disorder in infants and if not recognized as the cause of an infant's seizures can result in irreparable damage and even DEATH. It is also INDISPENSABLE as a treatment in a specific form of anemia known as SIDEROBLASTIC anemia which is a genetically acquired disease. It is also HIGHLY recommended that adults who are B6 deficient undergo replacement therapy. Otherwise, complications such as peripheral neuropathy, seborrheic dermatitis, glossitis, and cheilosis, as well as depression, confusion, and seizures (extreme cases of chronically low levels) can occur.

However, as a sleep aid or supplement it has been looked at and categorized as INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE in the treatment of INSOMNIA. In fact, there was a study performed that specifically looked at a combination of casein, zizyphus and hops (plants), as well as magnesium and vitamin B6 which concluded that in fact, this DID NOT significantly help or reduce the incidence or disability related to INSOMNIA.

Pantothenic Acid (B5) is also a necessary cofactor in the normal progress of biochemical processes in the body having to do with the metabolism of carbohydrates, proteins, and lipids or fats and is felt to be POSSIBLY effective for repairing skin tissue (especially in people who suffer from radiation therapy damage), however, such use to date has not been universally confirmed. In fact, some studies have suggested that there is a possible skin irritant SIDE EFFECT of this vitamin.

INSOMNIA as a treated disease for B5 is also listed as INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE to classify as helpful or recommended.

And so, in terms of clinical usage this vitamin has no known scientifically proven diseases for which it is known to alter the course. It is, however, recommended to replace in anyone who can be shown to be PANTOTHENIC ACID DEFICIENT....so go ahead and have yourself assayed if you think you might be deficient and replace using good quality product (not multivitamin) but I cannot recommend it specifically to help you with any sleep problems.

Magnesium Bisglycinate is actually just a fancy name for 2 GLYCINE molecules tied to Magnesium. Glycine itself is a NONESSENTIAL amino acid and therefore important as it pertains to good nutrition. It can be synthesized in the body from other sources so no worries if you don't get quite enough of it daily...your body will make what it needs to run the factory. But in terms of its usefulness for INSOMNIA....unfortunately, the only conditions in which the compound you mention has been studied to any extent is its use in patients who have to undergo bowel resections (small or large). It's also been looked at to potentially treat muscle cramps (legs primarily) in women who are pregnant but thusfar has not received any nod from the FDA since it is not known whether the compound can cause harm to the fetus.

Zinc Methionine is another compound similar to the Magnesium Bisglycinate since we are looking now at a ZINC SALT of METHIONINE. Methionine is an important amino acid that contains sulfur which can help prevent LIVER DAMAGE in the face of acetaminophen poisoning (Tylenol). This amino acid can be converted to CYSTEINE which is another sulfur containing molecule. However, there is no scientific literature of a peer reviewed type (i.e. reputable and reproducible results) that has looked at this compound when used to treat INSOMNIA. In fact, there aren't any reputable studies looking at this compound in the treatment for any specific human disease or condition.

5-HTP (5-Hydroxytryptophan). There is no question that there is a huge industry built around the production of this substance to treat INSOMNIA, however, the funny thing is that's not what it has tested as being even POSSIBLY EFFECTIVE. The 2 conditions which the scientific literature lists as possibly effective is DEPRESSION and DOWN SYNDROME (some studies refute this claim). Available data and other studies using 5-HTP show INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE for it to be useful in INSOMNIA.

THEANINE is an amino acid found in tea and is widely used to treat anxiety and stress related syndromes. However, its best use may be for increasing concentration abilities and focus which may lead to people making less errors when performing tasks and this seems to be enhanced when combined with low doses of caffeine. For these purposes studies are said to classify it as POSSIBLY EFFECTIVE. However, for the condition of INSOMNIA, has no literature support in any direction at all due to the lack of actual studies which have been designed, implemented, and statistically analyzed.

And so the feedback on your supplement you are taking to help with sleep problems is that none of the ingredients listed have ever been shown to be effective for INSOMNIA. They've not been necessarily shown to be INEFFECTIVE either except for the one study I mentioned having to do with PYRIDOXINE where a certain combination of elements were actually reported as being INEFFECTIVE for insomnia.

The rest of the ingredients have either NOT BEEN STUDIED adequately in the literature to even have an opinion on them OR they've been studied and shown to show INADEQUATE EVIDENCE to make the claims. However, that doesn't mean people can't and don't use these products and as I said, if it helps you then, "power to the people brother" and that's tremendous. But I wouldn't spend a whole lot of money up front on these products which can be extremely expensive due to marketing hype and through the mediums that they are sold which all sorts of claims and sponsors saying just all sorts of things that are either UNTRUE or UNPROVEN.

The only 2 items in your list that I would be careful about using IN ANY PRODUCT for whatever reason would be compounds containing MAGNESIUM and ZINC. Unless you actually have a magnesium or zinc deficiency...or have a bona fide medical condition that requires the use of these metals then, keep in mind that both of these can cause severe complications if used in HIGH DOSES over a long period of time. So be careful and don't think that just because they are tied to amino acids of some type that the whole compound is completely safe. The magnesium is an electrolyte which if taken in LARGE DOSES can change muscle contractility parameters which goes then, to complications with respiratory or heart musculature. I doubt anything would really happen in real life since the dosages typically used in these products is so small that you'd have to do nothing by eat pills with zinc and magnesium all day and night until your next birthday to OD....but people being people....you have to at least put the warning out there.

On a final note....I tell this to all my patients for any condition they may have....the best way to manage a medical problem (probably any kind of problem in life really) is to study the issue enough and get to the know what you're dealing with so that the UNDERLYING CAUSE(S) can be identified. Once you've done your homework on that aspect of your problem THEN, go after a DEFINITIVE SOLUTION by attacking the cause. Treating INSOMNIA without knowing exactly what is causing a person not to sleep is a VICIOUS CYCLE which usually leads to very unsatisfactory results and issues of taking one medication after another with either no results or worsening results as time passes. Plus the problem just gets more and more engrained and reaches deeper and deeper into a person's ability to function.

Get to the root of the problem and usually the path to the solution is clear. Treat blindly with medication or devices that make lots of promises rarely leads to anything but trouble (from a medical perspective) and poverty (from a financial perspective). Make sense? Insomnia can have a gazillion underlying causes from physical to psychological to a combination. The job of the good doctor is not to be able to choose the right prescription but rather to choose the right METHOD OF APPROACH following studious analysis of what often times is a complex interaction of multiple etiologies and contributing causes.

If I've provided useful or helpful information to your questions could you do me the utmost of favors by CLOSING THE QUERY along with a few positive words of feedback and maybe even a 5-star rating if you feel it is deserving? I am definitely interested in getting updated information on your condition if you'd care to drop me a line at www.bit.ly/drdariushsaghafi and let me know how things turned out.

You can always reach me at the above address for this and other questions. I wish you the best with everything and hope our discussion has aided in your understanding of a few concepts related to your concerns.

CHEERS!

This query required 88 minutes of professional time to research, assimilate, and file a response.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
Answered by
Dr.
Dr. Dariush Saghafi

Neurologist

Practicing since :1988

Answered : 2472 Questions

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Hi There, I Would Like To Get Feedback On A

Hi there, I would like to get feedback on a supplement stack I'm taking to help with my sleep. Vitamin B6 (P5P) 50mg - Vitamin B5 500mg - Magnesium Bisglycinate 100mg - Zinc Methionine 30mg - 5 HTP 200mg - L-Theanine 200mg I want to know if this is safe to take nightly?